Pavone And McBrien Debate On O’Reilley Factor

Most polls are saying John Kerry won Wednesday night’s debate. Bush won. Hands down.

Support for Kerry Really Anti-Bush

Cardboard Kerry is the original Nowhere Man. Even a Chicago Tribune story Thursday says:

There hasn’t been a grand embrace of challenger John Kerry, and even in the waning days before the election, a Kerry agenda is still not easy to define. . . . Kerry is really planning on the hate factor against Bush. . . . [T]o vote against someone is often more powerful than the desire to vote for someone. Bush will be relying on his legion of lovers and hope that the haters have hit the wall.

One thing is sure: A Kerry president will keep his pledge to appoint pro-abortion judges and try to unravel gains pro-life has made under Bush, dragging America even further toward the abyss. Bush is not perfect, but Kerry is scary.

Pavone v. McBrien on O’Reilly

Wednesday night’s The O’Reilly Factor featured Fr. Frank Pavone of Priests for Life and Fr. Richard McBrien from the University of Notre Dame. Fr. Pavone was right and McBrien was wrong, but here are some excerpts from the show:

O’Reilly: In the Unresolved Problem Segment tonight, the archbishop of Denver, Charles Chaput, says Roman Catholics should not support politicians who support abortion. If you vote this way are you cooperating with evil . . . and you should go to confession. Joining us from South Bend, IN is Fr. Richard McBrien and in the studio Fr. Frank Pavone. Can this be an endorsement of President Bush?

Pavone: We want to help form peoples’ consciences.

O’Reilly: Is a Catholic voting for Kerry doing anything wrong?

Pavone: Doctors who perform abortions testify that abortion is dismemberment, decapitation crushing heads, inserting poison —

O’Reilly: You’re dodging the question. Can you give me an answer Fr, McBrien?

McBrien: I’d ask if you were from Denver.

O’Reilly: So it’s a sin in Denver but not in Pennsylvania?

McBrien: The American Catholic Bishops as a body do not follow the approach that’s been taken by the archbishops of Denver, St. Louis and Newark. They have made it very plain ever since 1988 that they do not presume to instruct anyone on how to vote by endorsing or opposing candidates. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger said if a Catholic votes for a pro-choice candidate precisely because of that candidate’s support of abortion it would be wrong. But if someone votes for a candidate for other reasons, putting everything in a consistent-ethic-of-life framework, it would not be a sin.

Pavone: Father McBrien, are you forgetting the word “proportionate?”

McBrien: No.

Pavone: Then how come you didn’t mention it? You’re misleading this audience. The Cardinal said for proportionate reasons. What is proportionate to 3,500 innocent children being deliberately destroyed, heads crushed, arms and legs torn off.

O’Reilly: All right. So you put it at the head of the list.

Pavone: There’s nothing more proportionate. You don’t need a Vatican cardinal to tell us about that.

McBrien: I don’t know if Fr. Pavone agrees with the teachings of our bishops that we have to follow a consistent-ethic-of-life. Pope John Paul II himself said War is an attack on human life. The proportionate reasons would be that you’re looking at a candidate and trying to see what that candidate’s views and policies are on a broad range of life issues, including the war in Iraq. It’s a judgment call.

Pavone: No. The bishops and the pope have said that abortion trumps the other issues.

McBrien: They have never said that.

Pavone: They certainly have.

McBrien: This is not a card game. There’s no trump card.

Pavone: I would consider it a sin for me to vote for Kerry.

McBrien: Well, that’s fine.

O’Reilly: And you’re entitled to it. I’ll let the folks decide, because I’ll just get into a lot of trouble.

Then came the commercial break. Who won? Why, O’Reilly, of course.

Defend Marriage in Illinois Oct 16-22

Join one of 14 United We Stand Defending Marriage Rallies October 16-22, at locations all over Illinois. For information call 630-790-8370.

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